Excerpts from a Portland City Club presentation Jan. 30. The topic was 'Is National Security a Threat to Your Civil Rights?'

'The Patriot Act simply updates criminal investigation procedures to the 21st century. It allows us to keep up with the Joneses Ñ or should I say the bin Ladens.'

Ñ Charles Gorder Jr., assistant U.S. Attorney

'One of the problems with the Patriot Act is that it allows the FBI to go judge shopping, to find the friendly judge in the southern district of Wyoming or wherever he or she might be, and we won't know the statistics because it's all secret.'

Ñ Charles Hinkle, attorney with the Portland-based firm of Stoel Rives

'You know, that's a really good question, and I have to say the federal criminal code does a lousy job of answering that question.'

Ñ Gorder, asked 'What is a terrorist? What makes someone a terrorist?'